tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6798372697599428727.post6782067703496619518..comments2024-01-26T02:50:31.892+01:00Comments on Turning Dutch: To Learn Dutch or Not to Learn Dutch - That is the Question.Amanda van Mulligenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17328016562973171711noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6798372697599428727.post-61642739208584710692014-06-27T16:33:50.388+02:002014-06-27T16:33:50.388+02:00Yet another example that national-socialism is bac...Yet another example that national-socialism is back in the Netherlands.<br /><br />Between that, the PVV-meldpunt, torching of foreigners cars and "casual" racism, I've made the decision that I don't want to live in such a xenophobic country, and I'm happy that I've already got my flight outta here booked. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6798372697599428727.post-72773096195063946402014-02-27T11:09:40.608+01:002014-02-27T11:09:40.608+01:00I can see why this issue has the potential to stir...I can see why this issue has the potential to stir up a lot of emotive debate. From what you say about there being quite a few international companies in the Netherlands whose working language is English, it seems that it is the less well off are being asked to do something that the more well off do not necessarily need to do when it comes to learning Dutch.<br /><br />Like one of other commenters has said, I'd like to see more of a focus on carrots than sticks (...which instantly reminds me of seeing some Dutch football fans dressed in orange and waving carrots at the 1998 World Cup in France!). It's easy for a state to place the burden of responsibility on immigrants when it comes to assimilation and learning a language, but there also needs to be a focus on what the state can do to facilitate their integration. In other words, dialogue is really important.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6798372697599428727.post-85667819189558775812014-02-21T19:40:10.070+01:002014-02-21T19:40:10.070+01:00This is very interesting. I lived in NL for three ...This is very interesting. I lived in NL for three years (and have been gone for almost three now) and I left with a good listening comprehension but no real speaking ability I moved to the Netherlands to 'connect' my family as my Dutch partner could not get a visa to the US at the time. I had no interest in learning Dutch when I moved there, I lived there to be with my family alone.<br /><br />My opinions have changed, especially as my daughter gets older and we work at keeping her bilingual here in England. My Dutch has greatly improved since I left because I had an incentive to learn.<br /><br />I dont know if it is 'fair' to stick everyone into such a policy. There are a million reasons to move to a country, and most of them are not to benefit off of the country's welfare system. <br /><br />That being said if the government provides adequate, free, language training (something I couldnt get when I was there) there is no reason for people not to assimilate unless they are in NL for work or school, in which case they probably dont qualify for the benefits anyway. <br /><br />These days I am 100% positive that those early days in Holland would have went much smoother had I tried harder to learn Dutch. It is something I recommend to every new expat. I still dont know if taking away assistance is the best move forward...Jesshttp://www.theflyawayamerican.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6798372697599428727.post-54076520040981070312014-02-11T10:29:17.462+01:002014-02-11T10:29:17.462+01:00I know I'm a bit late to see this post, but it...I know I'm a bit late to see this post, but it's a topic that really resonates with me. I've been living in NL for less than two years and, like you, I started to learn the language even before I came here. (I'm still not fluent alas!! But I have started to experience those extremely exciting moments when my Dutch is better than my interlocutor's English.)<br />These ongoings in parliament are very interesting, and I agree that there is no clear-cut answer. I don't know any expats who are on welfare, but I do know expats who complain about not being to find a job, or who whine about Dutch people's English, and I do find it very hard to be sympathetic ... Simply because I know that these people have been here as long as I have (or in some cases much longer) and have made only minimal efforts, such as attending one informal class. In this sort of case, I would definitely support these new welfare laws, but as the other commenters have already pointed out, the people who have the most to lose from this law are likely the ones we have the murkiest pictures of. <br />Anywho, thank you for this informative and thoughtful post :) Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6798372697599428727.post-60888875615758286182014-02-06T18:10:14.989+01:002014-02-06T18:10:14.989+01:00I would think most people who move to a country wi...I would think most people who move to a country with an entirely different langauge to their own would learn, or at least be interested in learning the language in order to make the most of their new home. If you do not speak the langauage, even everyday tasks would be much harder. <br /><br />I can see how some people may really struggle to learn to speak to a competant level, which should (like you did) really be looked at and started beofre the move - that would be my consideration too. If I found that I struggled too much, then maybe the move would not be the best thing to do at that time.<br /><br />It certainly is an interesting debate as I cannot really see how anyone moving to a new country would outright refuse to learn the language - I wonder what the figures are of migrants who have refused actually is?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6798372697599428727.post-2673126868068158522014-02-04T03:28:53.752+01:002014-02-04T03:28:53.752+01:00I am leery of a
'one size fits all' reaso...I am leery of a <br />'one size fits all' reasoning. If a person is doing their level best to learn a language, but are still having difficulty testing out at an appropriate level, then the gov't. should investigate why this is. Some learn slower, some find it difficult (but rewarding) to learn another language due to processing issues ('leaning disabilities').petoskystonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01633621111274495078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6798372697599428727.post-9469901941774694082014-02-03T14:12:51.867+01:002014-02-03T14:12:51.867+01:00The problem with these laws is that they aren'...The problem with these laws is that they aren't based on any reality.<br /><br />How many foreigners do you know that have "refused" to learn Dutch? Now how many of them do you feel are one disaster away from applying for welfare?<br /><br />Do these politicians ever actually research the target of these policies? Do they assume all those who aren't fluent are "refusing" to learn? Pride and frustration can lead people to announce "What's the point? It's a stupid language. Everyone answers me in English..." etc, but that's usually an indication that the learning experience has been extremely negative.<br /><br />And using only sticks without carrots doesn't help. <br /><br />Tomorrow, I do my luisteren staatsexamen for the fourth time. After almost 10 years here, I'm far from fluent. But to say I "refuse" to learn is an insult to all the work and money I've invested. <br /><br />I would say that the majority of people want and intend to learn the language of the country they are moving to. I think the government should find out why some don't succeed before they assume. Canucky Womanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04655703730574731547noreply@blogger.com